Escaping Abroad : Interview with J.D. Goutlet

Navigating Uncertain Times: A Journey from the U.S. to Portugal.

In this episode, we discuss the challenges and tough decisions facing many in the United States as it heads toward times of great change, unrest, and potential collapse. In this episode we highlight the experience of J.D. Goulet, a gifted neurodivergent writer, who made the move to Portugal a little over a year ago. We explore the process and choices involved in seeking a better future abroad. 

You Can Find J.D. On Blue Sky and Substack here:
https://bsky.app/profile/tanzpunk.bsky.social
https://substack.com/@jdgoulet

The Gifted ND Substack is here:
https://substack.com/@giftednd

Transcript

Escaping Abroad: J.D. Goulet Interview 

Lillian: Welcome to the Gifted NeuroDivergent Podcast. I'm Lillian Skinner. Today, we're going to talk to JD Goulet. She's a writer I met on Substack and she moved a year and some ago to Portugal. And I thought it's important that we talk to people who are doing the big things, making the big choices and getting the heck out of Dodge. Because we're going through a quite tumultuous time here in the States, we're headed into collapse and there are people who are fleeing and I don't blame them. I wish I was them. It's time to figure out how that works and what our choices are. So today I asked JD to talk about that. [00:01:00] Nice to meet you. Do you go by JD?

I do. Okay. Nice to meet you, JD. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate it. My podcast is about people who can mental model. So when I see someone who can mentally model, I reach out and say, want to be on my podcast because you're a perfect example of somatic and cognitive giftedness.

JD: Yeah, all right. I, I, that's, um, I think I'm still figuring out the ways that I'm apparently different from other people. So, like, when you talk about my being able to, you know, use the mental model or whatever, I'm like, oh, okay. I was like, it's, it's a new concept to me, but I have become aware that like, oh, a lot of ways that, you know, There are differences explain a lot because I think I've moved through most of my life assuming that other people are like me and then realizing they're not and I'm like, Oh, that makes a lot of sense.

Now I get, you know, like why people are so frustrating is because they're not at all like me. [00:02:00] I have always known that I was different, but I've been waiting for everybody to catch up and it doesn't happen. Yeah, it definitely, it explains why, uh, you know, I find a lot of, not all, but a lot of other human beings to be so frustrating and, uh, and why others are so endearing and why I can click with them cause like, Oh, you do think like me.

Lillian: So , you live in Portugal?

JD: I do for just over a year now. I'm outside of the city of Porto. I would love to know like what, what got you there? Why you chose there or what pulled you there? Yeah, I've been there. I lived in Savannah before coming to, uh, to, to Portugal, although I'm not by any means a native there.

I'm mainly from Washington state, but I've actually lived in like, I don't know, I think like eight states. And I think I'm up to 16 cities now. That I've lived in. So, uh, but yeah, as far as like the, the whole thing about Portugal, I feel like that in itself could probably fill a book. Uh, [00:03:00] we realized, uh, definitely by 2022, uh, my partner and I were like, we, we got to get out of the United States.

This is, this is gonna, you know, just go up in, in, uh, In flames here, and we don't want to be here for that because we're not, you know, capable of, uh, a physical fight for sure. Uh, I guess a little, a little background context. Um, uh, my partner is a trans former army ranger disabled veteran. Um, my son is trans.

And his partner is trans. My other kid is, uh, non binary and has an intersex non binary partner. They are unfortunately still in the United States, uh, but they did get out of Georgia, not necessarily to a better state. They're in Missouri, so it's kind of like trading one brand of evil for another, but, uh, so I worry a lot about them, but.

They're both disabled and, um, that presents some challenges for them to be able to, [00:04:00] uh, have joined us here because the type of disability that they receive, um, I can never remember which one is which, there's SSI and SSDI, but anyhow, they receive the type that they would lose benefits if they leave the country for more than 30 days.

Um, but anyhow, uh, so obviously as, you know, a, a trans family, Uh, living in Georgia, things were not looking so great for us and, uh, you know, downright scary, especially because we are both very aware of history and how, you know, like my, uh, my partner, she's kind of like a, uh, a World War II walking encyclopedia.

It's one of her special interests. And so it's like, We could see the parallels to what's going on currently. So crazy. Part of my is researching the education system. We literally imported the Nazi education system over here. It was inevitable that would happen. Yeah. Well, and like Hitler was a big fan of the [00:05:00] United States.

Like, he was like, Oh, what you did to, uh, you know, your native population. I want to figure out how you did that and replicate it here. Cause that was cool. 

Lillian: I did a podcast actually on the identity fluidity for my children podcast. Because my family, we are all gender neutral. My mom is gender fluid. She's always wearing camis. People are like, is that your mom or your dad? That's my mom. I was so tall as a young kid and I was so athletic. I was pretty sure I was supposed to be a boy for years. I was indifferent. I think that's just part of being neurodivergent. But I also think that I didn't really understand what it meant to be a woman until I had children. When I had children. I delighted in being a woman.

JD: That's fascinating. That's fascinating. I, um, landed on a gender for myself a few years ago after my son told me that he was trans. And I think it's just something that I, like, I had never until him, I had never even really heard of the term non [00:06:00] binary or had never been introduced to the term That, that concept and once I was introduced to it and kind of processed through it, in fact, there's a question that both my trans son and my, my partner have asked me at different times over the years, and it was a question along the lines of, um, if you woke up tomorrow in the opposite sex body.

How would you feel about that? And I know the intention of that question is often to get people who are cisgender to think about, like, what it would feel like to be in the, you know, quote unquote, wrong place. body. And for me, I was like, I don't think I'd feel any way about that because I am not my genitals.

And I think I'd probably just look down and be like, all right, cool. 

Lillian: That's a shock. And that's it. 

JD: Yeah. And so I definitely realized that I don't have any attachment to my body because I don't consider myself to be what my [00:07:00] body is. My body is more just like a, A billboard or a mannequin for performing whatever I feel like.

Anyhow, it's been an interesting journey, I guess you could say. And it kind of goes along with the, the realizing very late in life in my mid forties that like, Oh, I guess I technically could be diagnosed with autism if I ever, you know, Pursued that and reprocessing through my entire life as one tends to do when you realize something like that later on and all of a sudden everything seems to click and you're like, and it's, it's funny because when I, uh, mentioned to my, my, uh, my kids, you know, like, cause both of them are, are, are autistic one officially diagnosed at the age of three and both of them were like, yay, you finally figured it out because like they knew, and then we're just like.

Yeah. Dropping hints, apparently, that like, mom, it's not just dad. 

Lillian: I think good relationships can often be between two neurodivergents [00:08:00] because a neurotypical person and neurodivergent person means somebody's needs are not being on some level Maybe both people's on all levels. 

JD: I wish I could say that was the case with, with me and their dad.

We've been divorced for a very, very long time now. Um, and we married, uh, very young for all kinds of reasons that in themselves could be, you know, a book and I've written about it somewhat, but. He and I, neither of us realized when we got married in our early twenties that we were autistic. I mean, we're from the generation where that just really wasn't a thing yet.

You know, you're just a weird outsider with strange quirks, you know, and, but really smart. And, uh, but I know that like, it was his neurodivergence, even though I didn't have that framework yet was what attracted me. And, um, but it was because of all of the. Uh, social conditioning that told us we should be certain ways that we didn't work out like I think if we had [00:09:00] met now, we might have worked out because we would have had a different lens to view everything through.

But back then in the 90s, uh, to uninformed, you know, 20 somethings who don't even realize that they're neurodivergent because they don't know neurodivergent is even a thing, you know. And so we were still trying to force ourselves to obey by the social order. And, uh, that, you know, that tore us apart in the end.

So this is what it is. I have a wonderful.

Lillian: So your current partner is not your ex. 

JD: No, no, my current, my current partner is not my, my ex. No,

Lillian: first marriage and that sort of thing happened, but he was neurotypical and he was in the military. The military is a whole nother level of horror for any marriage. If you ask me.

JD: Yeah. I don't know how my current partner survived the, uh, army. And in fact, it, she's talked about a lot to me and I don't, she doesn't know how she survived it. Cause it's, it's pretty horrible for a neurodivergent, [00:10:00] uh, person. To yeah, there's trauma. We'll just say there's, there's definitely some trauma there.

Lillian: So much about controlling you and owning you. If you're at all sensitive, it's such an affront to every single one of your senses. 

JD: Yeah, yeah, like I, I know not to ever wake her up by turning the lights on, for example, because that is just going to start the day off wrong for everybody. I mean, I guess I would just quickly mention just back on the whole Portugal thing is that what I see online is a lot of people who don't even bother to consider the possibility of leaving because they just assume that it's so hard or so expensive that it's impossible.

So why bother even expending any energy on it? And while it is definitely Not for the faint of heart because I'm not going to try to sugarcoat it there. We have been through some really rough, you know, um, some rough days in the transition to, to, to getting here and, and, and making a safe space for ourselves here.

But it, it is more possible than people think. Although I think it is [00:11:00] also getting a bit harder now because Europe is going through some, some shit too. And so the laws are constantly changing and, uh, they're becoming increasingly less immigrant friendly, but, uh, what, you know, Not that this is right, but it is an advantage that I would encourage people to to lean on if they're from somewhere like the United States or the UK is, um, like in Portugal, you definitely get.

I think, uh, a bit more accommodated as an immigrant than someone coming from somewhere in the global south, which is really unfortunate and horribly not fair, but we have learned that, oh yeah, that's a thing. You'll get kind of prioritized and they might be more likely to Look the other way, uh, when stamping the Visa paperwork kind of a thing.

Like, I don't know, I, I'm hesitant to even say it, but anyhow, I, I just would encourage that if people are having the thoughts of, boy, I wish I could get out of the us, um, it is possible. [00:12:00] Uh, you know, I hate to say something like when there's a will, there's a way, 'cause it's kind of, you know, bullshit advice.

But, um, but I guess it says like. You know, assess your risks of the risks of staying, um, worse than the risks of leaving and possibly having an amazing new and longer, healthier, happier life. And when you reach that, that tipping point, which we definitely did, where like the, the possibilities of, of leaving were, were vastly, uh, more promising than, than what we knew was coming if we, if we'd stayed.

And, uh, and so when you reach that point, um, There, there are ways it, you know, especially if you're willing to give up the things that you've become accustomed to. Like, we live in a very small apartment here. We take public transportation almost everywhere we go, which thankfully is really robust and amazing here.

And like, most of what we need, we can get to on foot. Um, so if you're willing to do what we did, which is [00:13:00] just put everything you really need, like some clothes and shoes and a suitcase and go. Um, and you know, it's the people who think, Oh, I've got to ship all my things in my car and I need to afford a big house.

Yeah. You're going to have a hard time doing that, but, uh, if you're willing to let go and reassess your priorities in life and decide, you know, what really, really will make you feel fulfilled in life, then, then don't discount the possibility that you might want to get out too. 

Lillian: That's a really important method because if we don't, we'll probably end up losing everything anyway. So probably exactly willfully, than to do it not willfully, is a much less traumatizing thing. We're the ones that can see what's coming and prepare for it. Now, as things change, we're going to be the ones who are aware and in front of it. And you're a perfect example. We've already moved. You made the hard choices in advance.

We gave up our house a couple of years ago. Actually, we sold it and we've been now and moved four times in the last four, three and a half years. [00:14:00] I'm about ready to get rid of everything. 

JD: I totally identify only because I did move, uh, between 2020 and now. I have moved four, four times and, and yeah, getting rid of everything and just cutting, starting over fresh was.

A little bit painful in some ways, but, um, but also, uh, yeah, it's untethering in a good way. 

Lillian: Yeah. It's very cathartic. And maybe as a creative, it's a cleansing sort of thing, because when you go to a new place, you'd want to have a new sort of vibe or something like that, especially being Portugal versus the U S I would love to know how is the difference between the two, much livelier, , than the Southern U S, .

JD: Yeah, um, I haven't been to Spain yet. Uh, it's actually kind of difficult to get to Spain from here. Uh, there's just the, the, um, infrastructure is not as robust as in other [00:15:00] parts of, you know, the wealthier northern parts of, of Europe, but I've been to Spain and I was an exchange student in Germany in the 90s, been all over, uh, you know, England and Scotland and, um, but, um, Portugal, um, I, I love it.

Uh, like there's just such a slower way of life, which takes some adjusting to, but it's, it's one of the reasons we chose it here. We wanted that. Um, and so you'll. You get people who like, let's say you need, you need a shower fixed, but it's not like an urgent thing. It's not like a toilets backed up or something, but, uh, you might wait a while before getting someone in and they're very.

Like, they'll be like, okay, I'll show up tomorrow and then they don't show up and you may or may not hear from them to say, I won't be there. So you'll wait all day and then they just don't show. And then they'll be like, oh, [00:16:00] yeah, I'll be there the next day. And it's just like, but when, when it's like something more urgent, I don't know, we're still adapting to that and just kind of learning to roll with the different expectations that like, you know, These people have their lives too, and they've got other people who, who need them and they're going to prioritize accordingly.

And I guess just kind of learning to trust the process that they'll get to you when they feel like given their workload, it's appropriate, but I appreciate that because it's what you want for yourself, right? And so once you kind of see that for what it is, you can, you can appreciate it. Even though sometimes it's still a little frustrating, so, uh, but it's like that in, in everything, like just, and there's, we had been warned even before coming here that like, oh, Portugal is notorious for its bureaucracy and their love of paperwork and physically putting the rubber stamps on everything and, and, uh, it's, it's not an exaggeration.

Like people who want to [00:17:00] come any, I would say anywhere in Southern Europe need to be prepared that like they're Uh, sick bureaucracy. Uh, they don't do a whole lot of stuff in computers and there's a lot of things you have to just show up in person to do even dealing with like, um, like, when we moved from one house to another here, um, you don't just log into an online account and close your water account and your Internet account or whatever, and you don't even call you show up in person and you tell this person I need to change my water to from this address to that one or something.

And so it's. It's it's interesting. It really is. That's been good for me. 

Lillian: Yeah, it does teach you patience because I think we get impatient here.

JD: Yeah, real quick. I gotta tell you this. This great story. So long story short, we had to go to the Azores. Um, because we, I was trying to sell my house back in the United States and I learned the hard way that there are certain things that if you don't do before [00:18:00] you leave the U.

S., you're going to have a hard time. And that is like if you're going to sell any kind of property back in the U. S., get a power of attorney before you leave the U. S. I did not do this. So the way to get a power of attorney when you're going to do that, you have to do the one through the embassy. It can't just be any old power of attorney or notary.

You have to do the official embassy one. There's only two embassies in Portugal. There's the one in Lisbon and one in the Azores. And the one in Lisbon was booked up for like weeks because they only had like appointments twice a month. And um, and so there was one opening the following week in the Azores embassy.

And so I'm like, guess we're taking a trip all of a sudden tomorrow to the Azores. Like that's not, you know, visiting the Azores I thought would be a future, you know, nice vacation kind of a thing, not an underdress. Oh my God, we have to do this now. So, um, so we go to the Azores, we go to the embassy, And the attorney back in the United States for, for [00:19:00] closing on the house is like freaking out and insisting we have to overnight the physical paperwork.

And I'm like, we're in the Azores in the middle of the night. Of the Atlantic Ocean. Nothing, nothing I can do is going to make this paper arrive at your desk within 24 hours. It's just not like the fastest possible service is six to eight days. And she's just not believing me. She's just like, surely you just haven't tried hard enough or checked enough FedEx locations.

And I'm just like, Oh lady, like what planet are you on? I'm in the middle of the goddamn, you know, ocean. Like, And so, uh, she, yeah, it was just those kind of things, those American expectations of immediacy that we've grown accustomed to with like the Amazonification of everything. And, um, I don't know, I guess there was kind of a sick pleasure inside of me of sticking it to this attorney and being like, that is not how the rest of the world works.

I'm sorry. It's just not get over yourself. 

I [00:20:00] wonder where there's the perfect balance though, like, if anyone, you know, knows where to live, where it's the perfect, not that I'm going to leave. I love Portugal. Don't get me wrong. I do. The people here, the culture, the music, the food, like the weather. It's a great, great place. 

How has it affected you creatively? Do you feel like you are able to be more creative now that you have the space or the time? I think time is huge. I think schedules are huge. I think the most creative people really struggle under the schedules of others because we don't have the space. To free up our minds to create. So I wondered Do you notice that?

 That's another thing that I am still like, I, you could say, um, awakening here because in the U S there was no, like, you're just so busy between your workday and your commuting and you know, uh, all of the other pressures that there's no time to just think. And like, I found that the only time I had.

To think, um, was like, if I'm [00:21:00] showering or trying to sleep and, and those, those times were often consumed with thoughts about work time. I wasn't paid for. Um, and it was just really frustrating because I was working at the time, um, uh, writing and editing and developing, um, online training content for, um, an Ivy league program.

Corporate arm, uh, and, uh, and that, you know, they're just the constant, like we need this written, you know, in this period of time and like the, the pressure to produce quickly. And it's like, but that's not how my brain works. I don't think that's how anyone's brain works, but certainly not mine. And, um, and so I don't, I don't work, um, any more long story short.

I'm, I'm disabled. I had a TBI from a car accident and, uh, had a stroke. The morning after the accident. And so that's another thing I'm adjusting to here is not working and, and learning my new boundaries in this, this, you know, [00:22:00] more disabled body. And, um, but having the luxury of just thinking and processing and doing things at my own pace, um, I, I think has been really, uh, Absolutely essential.

Um, I am trying to not allow myself to feel pressure to write on Substack, for example, like I'm not one of these people who's like, I'm going to make myself an editorial calendar and I've got these growth goals. And it's just like, no, I do not roll that way. And I don't want to roll that way. When I have something, when the inspiration hits, I might sit there and write For eight hours straight until it's done, it will all just pour forth in the moment that's right. And I refuse to allow myself to put pressure on myself anymore to do anything other than that. And, um, and so I, you know, if you look at my sub stack, you'll see, I might post [00:23:00] frantically three whole long pieces in a week and then crickets for like two months. And, um, and I am just, I'm at a place now where I'm okay with that.

That is my natural, you know, and I, and I can, it's funny cause I can look back now over time and see that I do have this like very wavy, creative, um, pattern of like, of silence and then like, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, and then, and then nothing. I wish for a world where more people could find out what their patterns were and just work like that.

And I feel like it would be so much better for people and the world at large. And, um, I think I, I'm trying to find out how to, um, you know, within my capacity to do so to push for that, that other world where we, um, can just, you know, Find our own, our own rhythm and have that be enough and not have to try to, um, fit a certain box in order [00:24:00] to receive the things that we need to sustain life.

Lillian: Thank you for that because that is so true. It is really hard to be human. It's like they have almost removed that from us , particularly in the States. As a creative that. It hurts my ability to produce, and I'm similar to you. I have chronic pain. I have a bunch of labels.

JD: I have a lot of labels too. 

Lillian: Yeah, we're important. We're the future because we're the ones that will be able to address the change, right? 

JD: Yeah, I've just, I've long considered myself a change agent. When I came across that phrase years ago, I was like, Oh, change agent. That is such a great term and meaning.

And I was like, okay, I have found out what, what my purpose is, I guess, is to be out there on the, you know, the, the fringes pioneering a possible new course, cause you know, lots of change agents, but that's not necessarily the way society moves, but you never know. And so, yeah, I guess it's always made me kind of the outsider because I am out there on the fringes.

But if we don't have. [00:25:00] Those individuals out there, then society just stagnates. We don't progress. 

Lillian: I think that's actually what causes the collapses. Your information gets static. They moved our data from being 3D to 2D. 3D is multidimensional. It has history. Right now, everything's present. When everything's present and the world's changing, that means that society can't keep up. It's a vulnerability. 

JD: I one thing I guess because it feels very relevant to mention here is that one thing that's so amazing about living in the Porto area is a port city. And so there's a tremendous amount of diversity here. There are immigrants from all over the world. There are creatives from all over the world.

And. Um, because it can be a little more difficult to break into fringe circles of, of native Portuguese people, we have tended to make, uh, most of our friends are other immigrants from all over the world, from Brazil, from Poland, you [00:26:00] know, from Romania. Um, and like, it's, it's just amazing. The. The sheer raw talent that we have encountered here from other parts of the world.

Um, we have a busker friend who's half Brazilian and half Japanese musician. Brilliant musician and my Polish friend who I'm about to release an article, because I've interviewed them about their new album that they've just released their, the Pope Polish but they lived in UK for years and studied in London and now they've been here in Porto for years and they just have this.

This incredible mind and their music is like nothing I've ever heard. It's, but it's amazing. And I, I don't know, I just love that about here is that you're a lot of the people who've come here, I've come here for similar reasons to us, whether they realize it or not, their fellow neurodivergence and feather fellow queer and gender bending type people.

And, um, it's just amazing to feel like I'm in this, this, this hub [00:27:00] where there's just so much connectivity and creativity, um, coming out. It's just neat. 

Lillian: That's awesome. I struggle in the artificial spaces. The grocery stores murder me. The big Walmarts. Do you find those there ? Is it a little easier in, in Portugal?

JD: Yes. Yes. Um, like there's not, I mean, it's not that there's not big box type stores here. Cause there certainly are. I tend to not go to them though. Um, so like for our groceries, we are a five minute walk from this little, uh, grocery store that I think is a chain. But it's not what I've ever heard of. It's called Socramere and, um, it's, it's small.

It has everything you need. And it's, it's pretty, you know, uh, chill and not the intensity of, you know, the, uh, the overhead sounds and the, the fluorescent light and there's. For like all of your needs instead of going like they have malls here, but you don't really need to go to them. Because if you just walk down any major street in the [00:28:00] area, there's going to be all these little Mon Pah hole in the wall shops that I love going into and and part of that, I think.

Is because they have not allowed Amazon into Portugal. It does not exist here. If you want Amazon, which I've never ordered Amazon is so far as I've been here, uh, you have to get it from Germany or Spain, uh, or UK, which is even harder now after Brexit. But anyhow, I feel like I'm like, please continue to fight off this influence Portugal, because I don't want to see all of these little mom pop.

You know, shops. Go like, um, it's wonderful to have that as opposed to, you know, the shuttered, uh, main streets that we find all throughout the U. S. that are gone now because they couldn't keep up with Amazon. 

All those little shops, it's really sad that they shut down, but they can open up again. They're relatively small investment to do it.

Eventually, the, you know, Climate change and things are going to bring all of that to [00:29:00] an end, whether they want to admit it or, or not, and they're not going to be capable of adapting to it. So yeah, having, having things in place to still fulfill people's needs when that collapse inevitably happens is definitely on my mind all the time.

And I'm, I've often been thinking, you know, of, you know, should I open a little shop here and have like all the creatives in the area come and sell their Um, yeah, we'll maybe, maybe I will be JD, the Portuguese shop owner one day. 

Lillian: Welcome to JD Goulet. Robert Goulet play all the time. People love it.

JD: I'll let all of my, uh, my, my Brazilian and, and, uh, Polish and all of those friends play their tracks. How about that? That'd be awesome. 

Lillian: That'd be awesome. Live busking. When you moved to Portugal, what was the biggest, thing that noticed? 

JD: Uh, God, um, I don't know that I had fears before [00:30:00] coming. I had excitement.

Um, it was exciting to, to feel like I had a chance to get somewhere safe. After arriving, there were definitely some, some fears of, you know, because of various, uh, unforeseen hiccups that, you know, everything would fall apart and unravel and we would end up, you know, homeless on the streets of a foreign country where we didn't speak any of the language yet there.

You know, that's why I say it's like, it's not for the faint of heart. Um, And the more money you have, the more helpful that will be to you. Uh, like when we, when we were in the Azores for that, that trip that I told you about, there was a time where for the first time in, uh, in my life that I can think of, I, I was broke enough and scared enough that I went on one of those mutual app, you know, our mutual aid things on like discord, it was like, Hey, here's our situation.

And like one person Venmo'd me 25 [00:31:00] times. Dollars that kind of saved our bacon like it made sure that we had enough to eat Until we could get back on the plane and go back like that was scary. It's it was genuinely we've been through some harrowing incidents I don't know if that answers your question, but, um, yeah, mainly just the fear that like for unforeseen circumstances that everything would just fall apart and we just end up, you know, homeless here and that has not thankfully come to pass.

Things have come together, but it has been by the skin of our teeth, quite literally. 

Lillian: You are brave. You said we should move. It's not that hard. You're saying it was quite hard. 

JD: Again, I tell people to look at your situation and assess your risks and if I mean the risks. There is no doubt in my mind if I had stayed in the United States, I'd be dead by now.

I had a couple of, you know, in addition to that car accident that triggered the stroke, I had [00:32:00] a sudden emergency, very serious abdominal surgery in November of 2022. Um, and, uh, the health care system in Georgia was, was falling apart so badly that I had too many near death close calls just from the failure of the system.

And for example, with that surgery, they sent me, it was, it's a surgery that I found out if that had been done in Europe, I would have been an inpatient for probably a week and had constant round the clock nursing care. In the United States, it was a same day surgery. And it, I had an open wound, um, when, when I say a wound, I mean like a six, I had a six inch smiley face in my abdomen and they couldn't stitch it shut because I had a, and if anyone has like body horror mute, but anyhow, like, uh, Uh, uh, but I had an open wound because there was infection inside, so they couldn't stitch it up.

And so, um, my partner had to [00:33:00] pack my wound, um, with the gauze and, and change out that gauze. And she and I both, like, she almost fainted from the sight of blood. And I remember her calling the hospital and pleading with them to send a home health nurse. And they literally were like, You have to figure this out because there are no nurses.

And if you don't figure it out, she's going to die. So suck it up buttercup. Like, and it was harrowing. Um, I'm, I'm getting chills thinking about like how horrifying this was because there was such a nursing shortage going on there and I was going, even though I had supposedly, you know, the good insurance, I was going bankrupt for the privilege of having them damn near kill me.

So, uh, uh, here I, uh, don't have that issue. I can go to the hospital and I can be seen and I'm on the national healthcare system here. And the, the first, I had to go to the hospital here for a relatively minor thing. I had stepped on something that [00:34:00] went into my foot and after several hours of trying, I couldn't get it out.

So they were like, go to the hospital. And the experience of just walking away and being like, this isn't going to bankrupt me. For Was just wild. I mean, because in the United States, I would have, you know, gone to any lengths to not go to the hospital in part because I don't want to sit in the health care or in a hospital waiting room for 12 hours only to be treated terribly.

And, um, and also like with the car accident that caused the stroke after I got in that car accident. I didn't go to the hospital, uh, because I, I knew what I was in for. If I went, I was like, I, I just want to go home. I don't feel well. I ha you know, I had a headache coming on, didn't realize I had a concussion.

And the next morning I had the stroke and I, I will always wonder what I've still had the stroke if I'd gone to the hospital. The US shit show. So I think when you realize when you're when you're [00:35:00] like, I can either stay here for more of this and probably be dead within the year either from violence or my own actions.

Um, pretty much anything starts to look better.

Lillian: I'm so sorry. I totally understand what you're saying. Every time I go to the hospital, for surgery, they almost kill me because they don't understand sensitive. It's very dangerous for us. And we're white women. It's even worse if you're a minority.

And now they're thinking about AI nurses. Great. AI can kill me because I don't fit into a profit margin. Because I'm going to cost too much. Because I'm extra. 

JD: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, so yeah, I guess if you if you reach that point. That, you know, that I reached, um, like I say, any, anything starts to look, you know, better.

And so, uh, and, and I will say that, like, for all that we've been through here, um, we're [00:36:00] in so much of a better place because we don't, for one, we don't fear that we're going to be, you know, murdered in the grocery store, uh, uh, or, you know, we, we lived in a neighborhood In Savannah, where one of our neighbors across from us had a, I can't even remember what, what the term for the flag, but was, but it was definitely one of those like revolutionary far right flags flown on his porch.

And so we did not feel safe, even in our own neighborhood there. And they were, you know, Confederate flags everywhere. You looked even the state of Georgia official license plate, you could get an official state license plate with the Confederate flag on it. Which just blew my mind when I first saw it was like, wow, um, and so you don't feel safe, and we got to where we weren't even going out and doing anything other than just bare necessities, you know, in fear and here in Portugal people are probably surprised to learn that gun ownership is actually.

allowed in Portugal. It's one of the few European countries that have [00:37:00] that, which kind of makes some of the other European countries mad. But, uh, but it's not awash with guns here. There's not a gun culture. People aren't out in the streets with them. And, uh, so just knowing that, like, you know, on that measure alone, we're so much safer here.

And, uh, I remember processing, you know, over the year that we've lived here, like, re evaluating my new sense of self safety, um, which has been really interesting because, I'll give an example, um, early on when we lived here, I remember out, being out walking the dogs late at night, it was probably midnight, and so the streets are really quiet, and I'm walking the dogs, and a door opens, and a man comes out, And he's following behind me as I'm walking the dogs and as, you know, is, you know, ingrained into me as a, you know, a woman, a female bodied person in the United States, just my, my anxiety went up, [00:38:00] you know, bracing myself, this guy's following me, I turned a corner, he's still following me, like, you know, just, Anyone, uh, would understand what I'm talking about in the US, you know, like the walking through a parking garage with the keys in your knuckles, kind of a thing.

And then telling myself though, that like. You're in Portugal, this guy's just out walking doing his thing, and you're safe, and like, it's been, it's been a months long process of trying to reassure the, the body memory that always comes up with anxiety and preparation for, you know, fight or flight. Um, and, and like trying to intellectually tell my body, we don't have to do this anymore.

We're okay. We're safe. Nobody's going to hurt you. But then also still realizing there's bad people anywhere you go. And so you still have to kind of have your wits about you and be smart. And it's, it's a weird process of like finding a new sense of, of, of balance when it comes to personal safety. [00:39:00] 

Lillian: It's a beautiful thing though, that you're going through that because it's a healing thing when you have enough power to get away from things that make you unsafe and you get to a place where you do feel safe.. Which you're going through right now on the other side of it. It's incredible. There's all this knowledge from being unsafe that you still have so you can still protect yourself But there's also the space to process it and use it. 

You are smarter for having gone through it And been able to get to the safe place. That's the goal. Trauma healed is the greatest teacher. It's really true. 

Right. That was one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was like, how is it now that you're over there? 

JD: Yeah. So that's actually what I was just going to mention. Cause I think you will find this, uh, interesting is that in the U S I feel like I had a much. Much better pulse on everything because I [00:40:00] was able to see patterns and connect dots, you know, in a certain way to understand the environment I was in and now I uprooted myself and put myself in a new environment and all of that is just like shattered and, um, And so that's been weird, like being in a new place where I'm like, Oh, I, I can't see the patterns anymore because this is a totally new environment.

And like that, yeah, that's a thing, uh, that, that you'll encounter is, um, it's like a fresh slate. And I find myself going back to the same habits though, of trying to build that foundation to help me see the patterns again and connect dots again. Uh, in my new environment, but because it is an entirely new culture and history and language and everything is new, it's going to be probably my whole lifetime of, of, you know, remapping the world to the intensity and detail that I had in the U.

Lillian: It'll take you two years. 

JD: I was just gonna [00:41:00] say that really tracks with other advice that I was given that has been so true because we're just just a bit beyond the one year mark here now and someone told us, um, that you'll be tired all the time for the first two years. And it. It, it, it helps to have that awareness.

And so that, yeah, that's the thing I will share with anyone who, who, uh, who is thinking of moving into a new culture is you will be tired all the time. And we are, um, but at least having that awareness of like, this is a normal thing. So I'm like, Hey, just a little, you know, under a year to go and maybe I'll stop feeling so tired all the time.

Um, but yeah, just being immersed in a different language and culture and surroundings is just exhausting mentally and physically. 

Lillian: Memorizing all the newness along the route. I would come home and have to stare at the wall for about 30 minutes. It really is this profound thing that you don't realize if you grew [00:42:00] up in the same place.

The U. S. is very grid like. It does the same sort of thing. There's times I'll be in one state that looks like the city I just came from or grew up in. Its spooky with the big boxes and stuff like that. But Europe is much more of its own flavor. That will make it easier to memorize it. Yeah. Yeah. 

JD: Yeah. I come from a town in Washington state that spring up because of the Manhattan project. And so it was quite literally a grid because the military built it. So, all the streets are like, named a through whatever, you know, a street, B street, C street. And then the other way was numbers and it's just literally a grid. So yeah, exactly here. It's more like a, somebody, you know, took a cobweb and just kind of mess with it real quick.

Just, uh, I would say on the, you were asking about some of the sensory stuff, like with the stores and whatnot. And I would, I, One bit of advice for more than one reason that if people are considering moving to Portugal, uh, especially if you are a, uh, a sensitive person, um, [00:43:00] maybe avoid Lisbon, um, like, sorry to anyone in Lisbon, but yeah, their city, um, I've been down there, I think 3 times now, and it is a sensory nightmare for me in a way that Porto is not, um, like, even just their public transportation system, uh, being in the train, um, You know, like getting off the train into the station feels like being in a wind tunnel with a jet engine turned on on the other end of it.

It's, it's overwhelming. And so there's that I, it's one of the things I kind of tend to think about and I, even before moving here when I would travel uh for a while, I even tried my hand at a little bit of like travel blogging and an old discord where I would talk about, you know, here's the, the The disabilities that I have and here's what it's like for me to travel, you know, in XYZ place and like, here's the things you need to know if you, you know, are mobility impaired at all, etc, etc.

And that's been especially interesting in traveling in Europe because it is such older [00:44:00] infrastructure. And so like a lot of buildings won't have elevators and maybe the stairs are really unsteady and uneven. Um, you know, maybe the sidewalks are a little more, uh, especially in Portugal, you know, the sidewalks can be pretty, pretty broken up.

And, uh, and so there's like a lot of things like that, that I think about. And so if anyone, you know, ever wants to know more about that, they're welcome to, to reach out and ask me about it. But, uh, overall, I would say avoid Lisbon. It's also just way more expensive and overtaken by people. Other immigrants and which is driving the cost of living up there.

You know, it's starting to happen a lot more in Porto to where even locals can't afford to be in their own place, which is really awful, which is all the more reason we've, you know, picked a kind of out of the way area. And also, I just don't like being in heavily populated in touristy areas. So. Um, but, uh, yeah, that's, uh, things to consider, um, if people are considering moving, um, to anywhere in Europe and you have [00:45:00] any sort of, you know, limitations to, uh, maybe check out your environment, you know what you're getting into, 

Lillian: do you have any other recommendations for cities that you like there?

JD: Um, I was going to say, I probably have more recommendations for the cities. I have not liked, um, but, um, Uh, I, I really enjoy the smaller off the beaten path areas like, um, we, we did a, a 13 day, I think it was road trip, uh, through Scotland and I just really love, uh, some of the, uh, like Isle of Skye was incredible.

I actually considered, um, wanting to move there pretty strongly, but with Brexit, it made it pretty much impossible for us to live there legally. Um, yeah, there's, uh, we've traveled quite a bit now through, uh, throughout Portugal, and I love Coimbra, um, and I love, um, uh, there's, there's places that I, [00:46:00] I could see myself living there, but I worry that I would get a little too isolated and bored, but there's plenty of, like, little villages, um, that are just absolutely beautiful and close to nature and have really cool, old, uh, You know, stone, uh, architecture, um, with moss growing up the walls and stuff that I just really love.

Um, I don't know that I could do that 24 7 all year without without feeling pretty, pretty bored and lonely. Um, yeah, I just really like some of the more forgotten and off the beaten path spaces. Um, I'm not a fan of London at all. It's probably one of my least favorite places, followed by Paris. Paris has its charms, but definitely like two days was enough for me.

And I'm like, nah, uh, yeah, yeah, the Azores were incredible. But again, I don't know, I could live there because it is an island and I really hate flying and I do want to be able to see other places. And so, in order to see other places, I would always [00:47:00] have to fly. Cause I also hate boats. So, but it was. Just stunningly beautiful. Um, yeah, 

Lillian: what's your plan as you go forward? What do you see coming? And what are you preparing? 

JD: Oh, man. Yeah, the things I see coming in Europe right now with, you know, as I'm still in that that process of, you know, building new models. Uh, it's not great. And we're, you know, keeping an eye on, on everything probably more than is good for us to try to figure out how we're going to best position ourselves.

Portugal is in just the time we've been here has, has lurched further to the right, which is really surprising. We didn't expect it because it is a country that, you know, people slightly older than me have a very strong memory of what it was like to live under a fascist dictatorship. So it's kind of surprising to see them going that way [00:48:00] again, but the last elections that just happened a month or two ago show that the that that is possible even here.

It's still the far right is still, um, small here and the center right. Um, party that took control of the government is refusing to cooperate with the far right. Thankfully. And so we're keeping a close eye on that. But, um, you know, governments all throughout Europe are, are experiencing these, um, fascist surges and it's because of the.

The, the capitalism is, is just doomed to failure. It's an incoherent impossible system to, to expect to have continued growth and the it's unraveling and that's what's causing the, you know, the people to, to. Um, fall for, unfortunately, the, uh, you know, the demonization of immigrants [00:49:00] and, and, and, and blaming them instead of blaming where you're putting the blame where it actually belongs.

 So, so we're keeping an eye on it and just, you know, we're. Um, capable of remaining flexible to put ourselves wherever we can be the most use, you know, to community is something that's really important to us is breaking free from the harmful individualism and consumerism. That's, you know, so I'm the prevalent in the United States.

And the UK, um, and trying to, to form, uh, strong communities, uh, of, of care and, um, and just remaining flexible. We are light. We have very few belongings can travel, you know, um, and, uh, yeah, so just trying to keep an eye and find out where we can do the most good and just kind of accepting to that. Like, Even here, we may, we, we, we may, we may die, like, [00:50:00] I hate to end on like that bleak note, but like shit's real bad, you know, like, um, and I'm tired of pretending that it's not. 

Lillian: Those of us who are really sensitive need to find each other because we're gonna be the most aware. I don't feel like dying in a space where I'm not surrounded by people that are caring. If you guys run into something, let me know because we do have that community that's starting in Spain.

JD: There's, there's a, a similar, um, effort underway here that, um, I've, I've met one of the, the leaders that's hoping to start this, uh, queer sanctuary called Cura Alma, still in the very early, um, stages, uh, but they have some land in the mountains in northern Portugal that we just went and visited, uh, last week.

Um, and so it makes me happy to see that those kinds of efforts are kind of popping up all over. Um, Uh, and yeah, so that's something that we, you know, may, uh, participate in and help, help grow [00:51:00] and make our last stand up there. Sorry. The dogs are about to go out on their walk. But, um, so, yeah, right now we're just in this, this space of openness.

And waiting to, you know, follow whatever speaks to us as being our purpose here. 

Lillian: Thank you so much, J. D. It was really a pleasure talking with you. It was really a beautiful story you gave and I'm glad that you're recovering so well from your stroke. I hope that they take care of you in Portugal. I hope that they appreciate you too.

You are an amazing person. Amazing writer. I enjoy your work online. I like your open attitude. I like that you just say it as it is because too many people are too afraid. I hope that things go well for you and that we can stay in touch. 

JD: Thank you. Let's do stay in touch and good luck to you too. Thank you.

Lillian: J. D. Goulet, everybody, do you want to tell where they can reach you and what to follow you on? Yeah, um, I'm on Substack. I'm writing Just Enchantments and Discoveries with J. D. Um, and I'm also, um, getting fairly active on Blue Sky now, [00:52:00] uh, and pretty much not anywhere else. Uh, so that's, that's where they can find me right now.

Yeah. so much, J. D. Take care.

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